Zelena Khan (00:00):
Welcome to NEXT, brought to you by ContentLabs. I'm Zelena Khan, your host, and I'm so excited to bring you season four with a brand new set of guests to educate, motivate, and hopefully inspire you in and out of the workplace.
Zelena Khan (00:16):
Throughout my years of working in tech and media, one industry I've always been really interested in exploring is gaming. It's evolved so much from the days when I was playing Super Mario Brothers or Duck Hunt. I mean, gaming is everywhere now. It's in your advertisements, it's in your social media, it's in your phone, and it's only going to get bigger. There's so much opportunity within gaming and for the people that are developing these games, it goes far beyond just creating stories and characters. It's about the experience. Today we have Kayla Madsen, director of gaming at TransPerfect to talk to us about bringing back every experience to gamers all over the world in their native language. We discuss everything from the phases of localization to the gamer experience to the future of the industry. Listen to the end for more information on how to connect with Kayla. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did.
Zelena Khan (01:10):
When I think about gaming in general, right? Or like my childhood specifically, I think about Super Mario Brothers, Duck Hunt, Street Fighter, just really fun things. Um, gaming has evolved so much since then, right? And I love . . ., I love having you specifically on the show to talk about it because as a woman, that's pretty cool too. You don't really get to see women a lot like women as the face of gaming, or women really talking about gaming out in the open. But why don't walk us through a little bit of your background and just how you got into gaming?
Kayla Madsen (01:48):
So, my name's Kayla Madsen. I've been working at TransPerfect for over 9 years. I've been in the localization space actually for almost 12, and I've always been working with technology companies, so whether that be with e-commerce platforms or launching multilingual websites or booking engines, and the opportunity was presented to me just over a year and a half ago to help lead and grow our AMI gaming division. So I jumped at this opportunity, having seen the massive growth that the gaming space had through the turmoil of COVID and just looking towards the future trends of where that was going. And I was eager to participate and learn more. I didn't really have a lot of experience in gaming prior to that, I'll be honest, besides playing my Nintendo as a child on my kitchen floor. And so it was really great to get into this space.
Kayla Madsen (02:40):
It is a very welcoming and open space. The industry has definitely come a long way from arcade games or, you know, handheld devices from the early nineties or late eighties. And I think that there are so many different aspects and ways that people can interact with games nowadays, that it's really a fascinating and upcoming space that's really exciting to be a part of as a woman. I think that, you know, 41% of gamers are women in the United States according to recent studies, and that percentage gets even higher when you look into Asia-Pacific. However, the typical thing is that there's only around 20% of women in leadership roles at gaming companies. So I do feel very lucky to be able to be one of the, you know, managing directors at TransPerfect, helping lead our gaming practice and really try to make sure that we are considering the women's point of view or perspective in the gaming world.
Zelena Khan (03:48):
It's good to know you're also a gamer to some extent. Do you do anything gaming related now?
Kayla Madsen (03:55):
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm not like a traditional first-person shooter gamer. However, I have a Nintendo Switch, which I love. I like to play Overcooked and Animal Crossing. I also play a lot of mobile games, Candy Crush to be <laugh> to be honest. And again, I love all the traditional, like Mario Brothers, Super Mario, Tetris type of games and arcade games, and our family, we have a really big tradition of playing board games. So games have always been a really big part of my family.
Zelena Khan (04:29):
Yeah. It's funny because thinking outside of what we consider the traditional game, I do not game a lot because I feel like I would not be able to stop if I started. You know, ooh, let me buy this paintbrush, or let me buy this wallpaper for my home. Like, these are all really interesting concepts; I'm thinking about the Sims too. I completely forgot about the Sims.
Kayla Madsen (04:53):
And I think that you see lots of examples of gamification. You know, that in all industries it's across the board. So you know, you have really leading companies like Starbucks, Nike, Headspace, DuoLingo, right? Where they're using gamification to transform their loyalty programs, to transform meditation, exercise, learning, even marketing into something that's much more fun and engaging. And it goes to the . . .
Zelena Khan (05:26):
Yeah, e-learning too.
Kayla Madsen (05:27):
Exactly, exactly. So it's really touching every space, every vertical, every industry and department within companies. three years ago, so in 2019, TransPerfect acquired Mogi Group, which was a niche gaming outsourcing company that has been around for about 15 years. And we've spent the last few years really integrating them into the larger TransPerfect group and rebranded as TransPerfect Gaming Solutions and their expertise and local knowledge in the gaming space and their over 400 clients really brings an added value and also is supported by the larger TransPerfect family with our global stretch of offices, of studios, of, you know, testers or linguists. So we're combining two really, really special areas that are gonna really help grow and support our clients and their growth over the next few years.
Zelena Khan (06:28):
I think that's the beauty of the gaming industry. Like it's so much, it's expanded well beyond the Super Mario Brothers, Street Fighter type of game. It's everywhere, like mobile gaming, Candy Crush. When Candy Crush first came out, that was like a big deal and you know, you were just trying to get to the next level, trying to get to the next level. And I mean, it only makes sense that, you know, as these games gain popularity, as they expand, you know, around the world, that people want things in their own language, they want that native experience, right? Can we talk about the difference between localization, globalization, and translation?
Kayla Madsen (07:14):
Yeah, absolutely. So I would say that the difference between localization and globalization, for example, to start with is that globalization usually refers to an entire business or development process. Whereas localization is specifically about optimizing your product and the service for going global. In other words, it's about designing something that can easily be adapted for any language and culture. So the important things to think of, there are like language scripts, characters, date and time formats, hardware or interface design. Also taking into consideration how easily things can be switched out in terms of icons or colors, which can mean different things in different cultures. And you also have to consider languages that have special characters or that go right to left. So these are a lot of the things that must be considered when you're talking about localization. And then lastly, translation is simply referring to, you know, the adapting of the texts. So that's just one small part, but you might need to adapt, you know, currencies or times or dates. And those are, those are, you know, part of the localization piece.
Zelena Khan (08:35):
When people think about the language industry, that's, they probably just shift to translation right away. But the more and more I was thinking about this episode and our conversation, I just kept thinking about gaming companies and, you know, they are storytellers, they are content creators. The experience is such a big deal, right? And, you know, I think about, characters and, you know, the colors that might come into play or the music that might come into play and how that affects the whole experience in one region versus another. So, I mean, can you talk a little bit more about that? Like, uh, some of the new trends or what you find clients wanting more than before?
Kayla Madsen (09:23):
That's a tricky question because since we work with so many different types of game companies from mobile to console to PC, and we have games that are, you know, simple puzzle games or Quest games or Match 3 games, and we might also have really heavy narrative games, right, or narrative led games. And so it really depends on what each developer is trying to create. And you really see that essence come out in the game designers, right? Like who's creating the game and what they're trying to achieve or trying to transmit. And so it really is individual, right? Like each game can really have different purposes. And I think that's what I mentioned before, right? Is that the beauty of the spectrum of like all these different ways that people can play and interact with games, it's so varied that there's not really . . . I can't think of one thing. I mean, the one thing I would say is that it's engaging, right? And what could be engaging for one audience might not be for another. So how do you, you know, really understand the persona or who is your target audience? And that might be in different markets or in different cultures, it might not. And then how are you really just tailoring your game to that person to make it, you know, a personalized experience where they're gonna feel really like a part of the game and wanting to play more?
Zelena Khan (10:45):
Yeah, like the complexities, I would say maybe just keep growing, right? Because the personas and then just like what game you wanna play when, right? So maybe on your commute to work, you wanna play something a little bit more mindless, maybe after dinner you wanna play something a little bit more complex. How does the localization process overall enhance the user experience of a gamer?
Kayla Madsen (11:11):
So I think that the localization process is a really key part to enhancing the engagement of a gamer, because you have to think about how that person plays the game, right? And how they think and how they interact and what are the cultural things that they need to consider. So like you mentioned earlier Zelena, if there's a character, right, if it's a character based game or a character led game, you know, are the characters all male? Are they all Caucasian males? Are they, you know, from different backgrounds? And so one of the things, you know, and that's not even related to localization in the sense of, you know translating text, but really thinking about when you're creating the game, you know, how do you ensure, depending on which markets you wanna target or launch your game in, how are you ensuring that they're gonna be relevant for the players?
Kayla Madsen (12:07):
And then secondly, one of the things we come across a lot that even developers and even AAA publishers that I've spoken with have mentioned in recent conferences is that when smaller, well, smaller developers, but not even small ones are creating games, are they ensuring that it's easily adapted later? So for example, are they hard coding text into the screen or the images? Are they creating words in their artwork? So the reason those can be challenging is because if I need to translate that text or translate the audios or subtitles or the voiceovers, and I have hard coded text, it's very, very difficult to extract that, which can take hours and hours of development work. And secondly, it's not a great user experience, right? If I have hard coded text on screen and then later I have subtitles or dubbing or voiceover, there's just not room to put that all on there. And secondly, if there's text in artwork, then you're going to have to pay to rework the artwork every single time you need to change that text into a new language. So these are just a few small considerations that really make the user experience for the gamer better if you are planning to launch internationally.
Zelena Khan (13:32):
I started thinking about my nieces and nephews, you know, they play Roblox and I can't remember the other ones. But you know, they, they're constantly buying things on the game, right? And obviously gaming companies are always working to monetize their game any way they can. We got a really interesting stat that said 40% of internet users will not shop on websites that aren't in their native language. And 64% of internet users said they are willing to pay more for a product if it's in their language. What are your thoughts on that stat?
Kayla Madsen (14:09):
It's not surprising to me, actually having been working in the localization industry for almost 12 years, it's not uncommon to see that clients or players or really, you know, anyone who's the end user is willing to pay more if they're able to understand what they're getting, right? And that's not even going into the black hole of SEO positioning, app store, you know, and marketplace content, right? So even if I can find your content, which potentially if it's not language, you know, if it's not adapted for my language or my market, it might not be showing up number one. Two, if it is showing up, but I don't understand it, you know, I'm less likely to buy it, right? Because it's just a less trustworthy channel for me. And so I see that even in myself, you know, if I'm trying to buy something online, even an Amazon purchase or you know, a local shop here in Spain, I live in Spain, is that if I can't read or understand the purchasing, you know, terms and conditions, like how much it's gonna be, how much I'm gonna be charged when I'm gonna receive it, you know, or what the return policy is, it's very hard to trust that.
Kayla Madsen (15:26):
And so I'm not shocked by that at all. I think that unfortunately, and this goes to a lot of my presentations over the last year, that, you know, the translation or localization is really left as an afterthought. However, it's not considered a revenue driven strategy. And it should be because that's what's gonna help, as you said, to monetize downloads games in-game purchases, if it's really adapted for each user.
Zelena Khan (15:59):
And it says here, the game market yearly revenue is predicted to hit 200 billion by 2024. That's a lot of money. <laugh>. Asia-Pacific takes the largest piece of the pie, uh, with 1.6 billion players. That's crazy. What's the largest markets for gaming right now, or maybe the largest areas of opportunity for gaming companies?
Kayla Madsen (16:23):
Asia-Pacific is the largest right now, but it's worth noting that Latin America, middle East and Africa are the fastest growing in terms of number of players and access to, you know, devices and online infrastructures. And, you know, there are recent mobile trend reports, and they're saying that among the top countries, 18 out of 20 of them are non-English speaking. So that means that if you want a piece of that pie, you have to be considering your localization strategy from the beginning of your development process.
Zelena Khan (16:58):
You mentioned that localization needs to be a top priority when developers are creating a game. Translation and, and localization, just globalization in general, it's like that secret weapon, you know, in a business where, yeah, you might be doing good, but you can be doing great if you had a better globalization strategy.
Kayla Madsen (17:19):
For those that maybe don't know, a typical translation team, which would be a native translator and a native reviewer can translate around 2000 words a day, right? So if you're looking at a hyper casual game with very little content, you know, that could be done in a few days or a couple weeks. And if you're looking at a three million word MMO game, like we're talking months and months, right, of translation work, review work, etc. And that's just talking about translation, which is really just one of the phases of the translation or localization process that we're talking about. If you think about phase two or or another phase, we need to think about linguistic testing, right? So once that content is uploaded and put back into the game, having a native player or a native person test the game in context, and then usually that creates a bunch of Jira tickets and bug tickets, and that has to go back to the development team.
Kayla Madsen (18:24):
The development team has to repair and fix all those bugs. And then there's usually a second round of regression testing where the same testers or second group of testers need to retest and make sure that those bugs were actually fixed correctly. And all the while that's to say that, you know, we kind of brushed over maybe what we could call phase zero, which is before you actually start your localization process or send your text to be translated is do you have a localization kit? Do you have a LOC. toolkit, which is like description of your character's, description of your environment, description of your game, you know, your global game design document, your, preferred terminology for glossaries or names. So there are some games where you've heard examples where it's a multiplayer game and people are playing from different countries and someone will put in the chat, let's go after so-and-so and, or let's go to certain location and the way they write it, the people in another market don't know what that location or character is because it has a different name. So there's a lot of things like that to consider. That I would say is part of the phase zero of localization, which is actually preparing the reference material and documentation for the localization teams before you actually ask people to translate.
Zelena Khan (19:49):
And it's those little details that really add up to the bigger part of the experience. I've talked to clients where, you know, they were so happy with the work TransPerfect did for them when it, you know, when it came to their game and, you know, not losing the details, you know, maintaining the creative voice, maintaining their, their brand throughout the whole process. And I think it was really the details that really mattered there.
Kayla Madsen (20:18):
That's a great point, Zelena. So one of the major things is context, right? Context, context, context. So those very small details that you mentioned that are so important to really polish and make a brand or a game or a product really shine and differentiate itself is in those small details and that requires context, right? So a lot of times also developers or publishers don't provide any context, and that's one of the largest challenges in our industry in this space, right is if someone exports string files to me and they send me an Excel with a bunch of strings, how do I know what goes where and how do I know if this is a title, if it's a name, if it's a button, where this context is, right? So context, context, context is so important and it's something that we really stress and we're seeing as one of the things that can really enable growth and making sure that the first round of localization go extremely well.
Zelena Khan (21:19):
Quality assurance is also super important as well, right?
Kayla Madsen (21:22):
So going back to what we mentioned before regarding testing, you know, LQA or localization quality assurance is one of the second or third phases in a game localization process. And although it can focus on linguistic testing and translation quality, it can also cover UI, UX, compliance testing, culturalization functional testing, and more So for those that maybe don't know is in short, it's native speaking players or, you know, experts in gaming with local cultural knowledge that would basically play and review the game, making sure there are no errors or problems in terms of truncated texts, cultural faux pas, visualization of things being cut off or, or not functioning correctly. And that can be done on all devices and in any language. We have an interesting case study from about a year and a half ago where a leading mobile game company with over 200 mobile games really realized the importance of testing.
Kayla Madsen (22:29):
And they realized that there were ebbs and flows that occur as the game grows or reaches international success or has new releases. And so previously they had been working with an in-house team and, and handled it all internally. However, they began to see that when there were extra peaks of work or volumes or they needed additional support, the internal staff couldn't handle it alone. And this isn't to say even considering sick leave holidays, you know, vacations that these people, you know, have. So since 2019, they began to supplement their internal testing team by partnering with an external vendor. And there were a few really key factors that helped them make this choice right, in terms of the ability to ramp up within a couple of weeks. So to add, you know, 10, 20, 30 additional testers when needed for a new release or when new bugs were showing up, or they were having issues from their community, and also security and IT requirements. As you can imagine, with everything that's happening in the gaming space right now, it's very important that games aren't leaked or that new releases aren't shared before time. And so this is really key because as you know, adoption rate can spin up and down really quickly and sometimes when a game least expects it, someone can stream them or, you know, make a recording on Twitch. And this will essentially, you know, get them a lot of visibility that maybe they weren't expecting through traditional marketing or advertising.
Zelena Khan (24:07):
Good problems. In the past, I've done some consulting work with like smaller gaming companies, you know, that have hopes of going big, have hopes of growing. And I think, you know, some people have access to this knowledge, but other people don't. So I think for like, for developers that are just starting or want to start the localization process, um, what are some of the best practices or things to consider?
Kayla Madsen (24:36):
Yeah that's a great question. So for developers or publishers that maybe haven't gone international and are thinking about the localization process, there are a few key things I would say to keep in mind or consider. So one is probably just evaluating if their game is ready to be internationalized. As we mentioned before, in terms of can the text be easily extracted? Is there dialogue that needs to be recorded? Are there characters, icons, images, or other things that might need to be adapted depending on which culture? So the second thing I would say is to look for a partner that has experience in gaming. It seems really obvious, but there's a lot of translation companies out there. I think the CSA's last report is like over 26,000 translation companies in the world. So don't just go to any of them. Try to find someone that has expertise in gaming specifically, both in terms of formats and expertise, and that the linguists or the testers really understand the game and also even the type of game. So again, it wouldn't be the same a console game to a mobile game, you know, or even a PC game. So checking on the experience and expertise there. And then third I would say is, you know, don't just let price be the determining factor. Because sometimes, I actually don't know what the saying is in English . . .
Zelena Khan (26:10):
Sometimes you get what you pay for?
Kayla Madsen (26:13):
Yes, yes. Sometimes you get what you pay for. In Spanish, we have a saying that says "Lo barato sale caro" which literally translated means the cheap turns out to be expensive. And so, you know, looking at factors beyond just price, right? Experience, know how, if they're able to do testing or other services that might complete that localization 360 process. And then lastly, I would say the fourth factor would just be think about technology and innovation. So, you know, we're in the 21st century, we don't need to be sending Excel files or words and sending them back. You know, there are tools to automate the sending of content. There are tools like translation memories that can be optimized and leveraged, especially for content heavy games where the content might be repeated. And this is gonna help with consistency with prices and cost savings for the game, and also for media or audio technology, right? If the game has any type of dialogue or voiceovers, do the agencies or partners have tools where they can work to do the recordings or, you know, work in the cloud or re you know, reduce or eliminate a lot of the administrative or really manual tasks, work, work that goes with that. So just looking at making sure that they have some technology and tools and they're working with the latest tools.
Zelena Khan (27:46):
No that's all super helpful and just a lot of things that can get easily overlooked. So it's really cool that you pointed out those sorts of details. You know, we mentioned words and colors can mean different things in different cultures. So, I know you have an example of a puzzle game company that didn't localize properly. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
Kayla Madsen (28:16):
Yeah. Well, the puzzle game example was actually more of like a missed revenue opportunity. So unfortunately it was one of those cases where they weren't expecting to, let's say go viral. And due to a streamer who posted great reviews about their game, it was picked up in Europe and, you know, there was lots of downloads that started happening within a few days. However, they didn't have their app store optimized or localized for any other market, and potentially what, you know, was an uptick in a few hundred, or even a few thousand downloads could have really been this huge wave they could have rode and gotten, you know, tens of thousands of downloads had they just optimized their storefront, right? And had it available so that when you searched on the app store in Spanish or French or German or Norwegian or Danish or Polish, that it would've showed up. And so that was really more of a missed opportunity.
Zelena Khan (29:14):
I think cute mistakes are okay to laugh at, but definitely, you know, I could see a couple mistakes getting offensive and potentially even turning off a gamer altogether. So really important I think to pay attention to that. You know, let's talk about voice talent and how that plays a role with the gaming industry, especially when, you know, we consider all the other services that TransPerfect has such as our media services.
Kayla Madsen (29:46):
One of the things that, you know, I think is really interesting is that 20 years ago, a AAA game would support like 500 lines of dialogue. And oftentimes that was just in one language. And today a typical AAA project can easily feature between 50,000 and 100,000 lines of dialogue. And so it's also not uncommon to see that these projects are fully localized and fully voice-overed in 12 to 20 language, right? So, although that might sound like a really large investment, there are a lot of technologies and tools going back to that, like leveraging innovations in the space that can allow that to be more affordable. And that can be things like cloud recording, so having access to tools that are online versus having to bring or pay for voice talents to come into studios in major metropolitan cities.
Kayla Madsen (30:46):
And secondly, also thinking about getting access to larger pools of talents, right? So also, historically, there were a lot of voice talents or voice actors that were always used for the same roles, right? Once a really good voice actor was found, they were always the person to go to. And I give always this anecdote about a voiceover artist in Spain who voiceovers like 12 actors from Hollywood. It's always the same voice. So now we have things, well, one example is with TransPerfect's Dubbing Academy is we have this option to recruit and leverage voice talents all over the world, right in rural parts of any country as long as they have good wifi access and a good microphone and recording space, we can use people to bring those characters to life. And so that's something that I think is going to make a big change in the space and allow more and more developers or publishers to really consider adapting and making those characters sound on brand in each language.
Zelena Khan (32:00):
Well, Kayla, you were amazing first of all. I mean, it's great to have an episode about gaming, but also it's great to have an episode about gaming with a woman and, you know, just representing. But thank you so much for joining us. We have this word association activity if you're up for giving it a shot. I will say a word and you tell me the first word that comes to mind.
Kayla Madsen (32:28):
Okay.
Zelena Khan (32:30):
All right. So let's put the timer on . . . no, we don't need a timer, <laugh>, it's not timed. So the first word is gaming.
Kayla Madsen (32:41):
The future.
Zelena Khan (32:45):
Translation.
Kayla Madsen (32:51):
Necessary.
Zelena Khan (32:55):
Global.
Kayla Madsen (33:01):
Audiences.
Zelena Khan (33:05):
Player.
Kayla Madsen (33:08):
Engagement.
Zelena Khan (33:11):
And the last one is collaboration.
Kayla Madsen (33:15):
Metaverse.
Zelena Khan (33:18):
I just felt like Steve Harvey on Family Feud, <laugh>. "We polled 10 people," <laugh>.
Kayla Madsen (33:26):
And the top answer . . .
Zelena Khan (33:27):
Yeah, the top answer is . . . Kayla, you were amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. If people want to learn about TransPerfect gaming and the services that we provide, or just to learn a little bit about you, where can they go?
Kayla Madsen (33:49):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. First off, I really appreciate the opportunity and it was great to chat and share more. You can find more information about TransPerfect Gaming Solutions on our website at transperfect.com/gaming. We're also on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, Discord, all of these channels. And specifically for me, my preference is on LinkedIn, so linkedin.com/kaylamadsen. And feel free to drop me a message or a question whether there's anything we can help you with in terms of services or we can participate in any type of panel or speaking event, I would love to hear from you.
Zelena Khan (34:32):
Gaming can be your entertainment, it can be your escape, or it can be another way for you to spend quality time and connect with loved ones or maybe even disconnect. One thing it will definitely do is be a bridge to different worlds and experiences. But the way a gamer experiences something in the U.S. can be very different with the way a gamer experiences something in another region, which is why it's so important to have a globalization strategy. You might be doing good, but you could be doing great, which could potentially make or break the growth of a game. If you want to continue the conversation, you can connect with Kayla Madsen on LinkedIn, and if you're interested in learning more, visit transperfect.com/gaming. If you made it to the end of this episode, thank you for listening. Make sure you hit the like button and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. If you have a question, comment or suggestion, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at
[email protected] or visit our website at nextpodcast.transperfect.com. Support for this podcast comes from TransPerfect, a family of companies providing language and technology solutions for global business.
